DISQUS

pmp · 2 years ago

well, i'm not terribly impressed with those guys, either, but more from the perspecive that i haven't seen any useful contributions whatsoever to the technical aspects of magical practice (with the caveat that their collective writing makes my eyes glaze over within minutes so i am likely missing some buried treasure;) however, in my eyes, the fundamentals of buddhism are entirely incompatible with a magical worldview. i'd rather play with reality then escape it, dammit. chain me to the wheel of karma, baby, cause i'm here for the long haul!

buddhism, of course, contains a long and damn fine list of useful tools for mind control and magic. oh blessed paradox!

finally, yes he's right that those voodoo critters can mess you up, but it goes with the territory because they're totally mercenary. that doesn't make them a priori evil or bad, however.

so, as usual, i must respectfully both agree and disagree with your fine words. :)

Al Billings · 2 years ago

Typical! :-)

Jason · 1 year ago

This article makes some excellent points, but also seems a bit extreme in its conclusions. Just because a couple of persons (albeit KEY persons) behind the ultraculture movement express their personal opinions about aspects of Voudon and Buddhism does not mean would should leap to the conclusion that the ultraculture is Aryan only. That would be like saying that if a person does not like some Kosher food, they are a brown-shirt Nazi. I think Louv and Shivanath are providing only their impressions of other practices based from the perspective that theres is a better way...at least for them. This could be akin to prefering to paint with ater color because of the dangers associated with long-term exposure to oils. The preference does not mean the artist is decrying all oil-painters. Yes, the Voudon-crack comment was a little over the top, but so is seeing an ultraculture-Aryan connection. It sounds more like someone simply trying to find fault in something that is succeeding.

some passerby · 1 year ago

@ Jason: The "Aryan" thing is definitely a low-blow and pretty much fulfills the usual internet pattern where someone calls their opponent a Nazi. That said, I have to disagree with you.

"That would be like saying that if a person does not like some Kosher food, they are a brown-shirt Nazi. I think Louv and Shivanath are providing only their impressions of other practices based from the perspective that theres is a better way"

I'd advise going back to the original thread on Google. Louv and "Shivanath" are stating, in no uncertain terms, that Haitian Voodoo is outright evil from all perspectives and involves little more than feeding never-satisfied "hungry ghosts." Maybe there's some credence to that, but frankly, reading all the gory details convinced me that even if they are correct in that regard, they are simply paranoid and following a victim-script something along the lines of "look at how powerful those evil things are! therefore, we must also be powerful and important because they victimized us!"

"It sounds more like someone simply trying to find fault in something that is succeeding."

At what are they succeeding? A failed attempt at applying the MySpace model to an initiatory body? I am more than happy not to have fallen in with this crowd, which I followed for some time. The more of their material one reads, the more they paint themselves into a paranoid corner. Since some of the prominent "Ultraculture" figures have made significant parts of their exploits and biographies part of the public record, you're free to look into it, and it's not a pretty, or even successful picture. Look at, e.g., Louv's self-imploding review of "Shadow of the Dalai Lama" another classic work in the paranoid (e.g., it implicates Tibetan monks in the destruction of the WTC) Unfounded Occult Panic genre, and it's clear that Louv is, at best, conflicted in his thinking.

John Pickman · 1 year ago

Wouldn't you be concerned if you *didn't* find something about another person that conflicted with your own ideas and beliefs?

Al Billings · 1 year ago

Nope.

I don't require difference or conflict in order to be complete.

I also don't have much use for racists masking as something else.

Jack · 1 year ago

AL, I was not impressed, was rather distressed, by that thread and the behaviour of Shivanath particularly. But can you please explain to me your conclusion that they are racists? I see nothing to support such a strident label and I think it weakens your argument of a Western-centrism in their magical paradigm which I CAN see, but would be very shy of labelling outright 'Racism'.

Al Billings · 1 year ago

The tone of their comments around Voodoo, which is African based (and some of their incidental comments while doing it) in comparison to the other, often rather left hand, systems that they embrace seems to be rooted in racism to me. I'm not sure if the entire threads are up anymore but that was my take on it at the time.

Jack Henry · 1 year ago

I agree their tone was very problematic but it was also very unequivocal and clear - i don't think they were 'masking' anything as you put it. I remember Louv sarcastically defended himself from the charge of racism by saying something like 'yeah i'm so racist i even exhorted people to explore further into the African Yoruba tradition' i.e. look past Voodoo which him and Shivanath obviously considered a degraded/corrupted tradition. Now yes this seems very arrogant and myopic of them and I don't agree with their argument - but it was clear to me whatever their argument was it didn't stem from bald 'white skin only please' racism, I think that's very reductionist and avoids and muddies the actual controversy. Maybe i'm wrong I just tend to think words like 'racism' should never be used lightly. Words being so slippery at best of time, accuracy is very important in any debate. Especially when being faced with horrible confrontational attitudes like that of Shivanath.

casey · 1 year ago

Extremely well said.

Layastar · 1 year ago

Belief Creates Reality! - Jason Louve

OLD TOPI PROVERBS AS FOLLOWS...

MAKE
SPACE TO BE
SPACE

A SOUL MUST LOSE ITS ATTACHEMENT TO HUMANITY

A MIND MUST LOSE ITS ATTACHEMENT TO SALVATION

A BRAIN MUST LOSE ITS ATTACHEMENT TO BODY

Those who accept Light Accept Mortality

Those who control Light Controll Immortality


Be Afraid to the point of formlessness

Be terrorized to the point of soundlessness

Be extreme to the point of powerlessness

OLD TOPI PROVERB^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Anything can be looked at in many ways !
I believe ULTRACOULTURE is a key to finding oneself in experience of combining Love and Loss to difficult relationships of people who by meeting changed both parties for the greatest good.

color_chart · 1 year ago

There is no substitute for science and proven fact. Anybody who believes in magic in any form is misguided and clutching at straws.. This is just yet another ploy to take peoples money.

Laya · 1 year ago

Regaurding voodoo... THE COMMENT IN ULTRACULTURE ..."Children shouldn't play with dead things" should be pointed out here.

Voodoo has many dangers considering in my opinion evil is where actions are taken out on another persons physical, mental, sexual or spiritual well being just to satisfy a deep seeded thirst for selfish controll over another persons well being for whatever reason is wrong!

Now Jason Louve commented his beliefs about the devil in the beginning about how the devil can only live in the human heart,
So considering the comments above along with the consideration of the women victimized by voodoo love spells, the possibility that any other help beyond the help that was offered them through tantra would have been innefective as they were obviously under strong bondage of anothers spell, leaving them misreable and lacking controll of self choices and situations.

Round of applause to the thoughtful hearted tantra teacher for risking his own ass to get them free.