One of the more difficult tasks in Buddhism is to generate compassion for people who think that _we're_ the ones who need it.
W.B.
Jonathan Korman
· 1 year ago
As you might imagine, I've given some thought to this same question.
In my own case, I don't think that it's privilege that alienates me from those folks. (Though unreflective privilege does squick me.) Rather, it's something that occured to me about folks who got undergraduate degrees in business; these are folks who went to college for social class reasons, but couldn't find a single subject at the university that they were interested in.
These folks are apparently only interested in one thing: it's not money, though it often manifests through money. They are interested in primate status games.
While we freak citizens are interested in stuff, whether it's comic books or ballet the quest for enlightenment.
laboratorian
· 1 year ago
spot-on. it's pretty rare to find this sentiment. i also feel like a space alien, what with having a college education and now earning more a year than most families but my dad not having finished 9th grade. it kind of makes you wonder what the fuck you're supposed to do with all the crap you learned when you grew up, since it's entirely irrelevant. that, and being sensitized to class basically evicts you from public discourse in america
that said, I don't like calling them "the suits" because I think most people dress like slobs.
and ivy league grads... went in illiterate brats, came out illiterate brats.
not really sure how to tie any of this into a spiritual practice, save to say that they're all suffering on the inside too
Al Billings
· 1 year ago
We're all suffering inside. That's why I feel ill at ease with my own sentiments even though they are definitely there. At the end of the day, they are people just like us and not necessarily even *bad* in any particular way. They're dealing with the same alienation as the rest of us (except for maybe embracing the game). I dunno.
As to them dressing like slobs, well, since I remember to shave once or twice a week and work in Silicon Valley, I can't throw too many stones there. I embrace my slacker dress code.
Jonathan, the thing is that when I've gotten to know a few of them, some of them (not all) that I've sat down with have more going on inside than one would superficially expect. You want to ask them "Why are you into all this shit?" at times. I mean, I know people who, at the same age I'm getting my MA or contemplating a PhD, are getting an MBA. That's a LOT of work and I can't really poo-poo it but I also can't understand why I'd bother. I can only think of class and goal differences. They are trying to achieve goals that I just don't really grok. The one exception to that is the getting of an MBA in order to start and own one's own business. I can understand wanting to run a business instead of working for someone else, though I don't want to organize my life around it.
I have no problems with people having money. Heck, by most standards, I have money (at least until I go back to school) but I don't use it to acquire status symbols except for my geek stuff (yes, I own an iphone, etc.).
I dunno. In a way, it is hypocritical for me to be critical but I still feel this weird class-like divide with these people when I'm sitting in a meeting with them at work or interacting with them at events and this feeling has lasted more than a decade now. It's a feeling that they are "other" than whatever it is that I am and that their goals are some sort of space alien thing that I don't get.
W. Smoke
· 1 year ago
Suits strike me as people who are either unimaginative or have not really thought about the direction they are taking things.
But then again, suits are like every other group or denomination of people: the majority of them don't really know what they're doing or why they do it, and the top-tier are really in control of the direction of their lives.
I think the people who have mid-life crises are often suits with no genuine interests outside of finance or business goals. I say suits because they're often the only ones wealthy enough to afford a mid-life crisis.
Al Billings
· 1 year ago
I don't think that they are necessarily unimaginative. They are often very creative business people. I think it is more than their goals are focused around the corporate game, amassing "success" in that game and, potentially, wealth and influence. They have bought into it all.
I work in the same system but I've never been completely comfortable doing so. It used to be that or flip burgers though. Now I'm far enough along to be able to make some choices and old enough to realize that they can be made.
laboratorian
· 1 year ago
"I dunno. In a way, it is hypocritical for me to be critical but I still feel this weird class-like divide with these people when I’m sitting in a meeting with them at work or interacting with them at events and this feeling has lasted more than a decade now."
That's not hypocritical. You've just recognized that class exists and that it's real. A friend of mine was sitting in the cafeteria as an undergrad and overheard a conversation. "What's the average income? $150,000 a year?" That's a real divide, and to think that it's hypocritical to acknowledge it is being hard on yourself. It's not hypocritical to acknowledge that you can't really relate to a wife-beating alcoholic redneck, so it's not to have trouble understanding a banker, either. It's just that we're not supposed to alienate up, just down... that's a primate-game too. But if you are actively developing compassion for everyone then it doesn't matter.
All Comments
One of the more difficult tasks in Buddhism is to generate compassion for people who think that _we're_ the ones who need it.
W.B.
In my own case, I don't think that it's privilege that alienates me from those folks. (Though unreflective privilege does squick me.) Rather, it's something that occured to me about folks who got undergraduate degrees in business; these are folks who went to college for social class reasons, but couldn't find a single subject at the university that they were interested in.
These folks are apparently only interested in one thing: it's not money, though it often manifests through money. They are interested in primate status games.
While we freak citizens are interested in stuff, whether it's comic books or ballet the quest for enlightenment.
that said, I don't like calling them "the suits" because I think most people dress like slobs.
and ivy league grads... went in illiterate brats, came out illiterate brats.
not really sure how to tie any of this into a spiritual practice, save to say that they're all suffering on the inside too
As to them dressing like slobs, well, since I remember to shave once or twice a week and work in Silicon Valley, I can't throw too many stones there. I embrace my slacker dress code.
Jonathan, the thing is that when I've gotten to know a few of them, some of them (not all) that I've sat down with have more going on inside than one would superficially expect. You want to ask them "Why are you into all this shit?" at times. I mean, I know people who, at the same age I'm getting my MA or contemplating a PhD, are getting an MBA. That's a LOT of work and I can't really poo-poo it but I also can't understand why I'd bother. I can only think of class and goal differences. They are trying to achieve goals that I just don't really grok. The one exception to that is the getting of an MBA in order to start and own one's own business. I can understand wanting to run a business instead of working for someone else, though I don't want to organize my life around it.
I have no problems with people having money. Heck, by most standards, I have money (at least until I go back to school) but I don't use it to acquire status symbols except for my geek stuff (yes, I own an iphone, etc.).
I dunno. In a way, it is hypocritical for me to be critical but I still feel this weird class-like divide with these people when I'm sitting in a meeting with them at work or interacting with them at events and this feeling has lasted more than a decade now. It's a feeling that they are "other" than whatever it is that I am and that their goals are some sort of space alien thing that I don't get.
But then again, suits are like every other group or denomination of people: the majority of them don't really know what they're doing or why they do it, and the top-tier are really in control of the direction of their lives.
I think the people who have mid-life crises are often suits with no genuine interests outside of finance or business goals. I say suits because they're often the only ones wealthy enough to afford a mid-life crisis.
I work in the same system but I've never been completely comfortable doing so. It used to be that or flip burgers though. Now I'm far enough along to be able to make some choices and old enough to realize that they can be made.
That's not hypocritical. You've just recognized that class exists and that it's real. A friend of mine was sitting in the cafeteria as an undergrad and overheard a conversation. "What's the average income? $150,000 a year?" That's a real divide, and to think that it's hypocritical to acknowledge it is being hard on yourself. It's not hypocritical to acknowledge that you can't really relate to a wife-beating alcoholic redneck, so it's not to have trouble understanding a banker, either. It's just that we're not supposed to alienate up, just down... that's a primate-game too. But if you are actively developing compassion for everyone then it doesn't matter.